(01:04:30) naemo: and idea of having a different UX on MeeGo is cool!
(01:04:54) naemo: you said you don’t use nokia devices anymore
(01:05:22) naemo: do you aware on which hardware people develop MeeGo handset
(01:05:25) naemo: and test
(01:05:29) smoku: I don’t develop for nokia devices anymore
(01:05:53) naemo: I’ve read it in your blog
(01:05:55) MohammadAG: Intel Aava, if you can afford it 🙁
(01:05:55) smoku: but I have N900 and use it
(01:06:04) smoku: this movie was filmed with N900 😉
(01:06:09) naemo: 🙂
(01:06:32) naemo: did you test cordia on meego/n900?
(01:06:50) naemo: because on three videos there were notebooks
(01:06:53) naemo: netbooks
(01:06:57) smoku: nope. I work on IA only
(01:07:59) naemo: I also think that it is very important to have as many devices covered as possible
(01:08:05) naemo: I need about drivers issues
(01:08:09) naemo: I know*
(01:08:23) naemo: Just as with regular GNU/Linux distributions
(01:08:35) naemo: it is possible to install them to any device available
(01:08:36) naemo: and also
(01:08:40) smoku: It is. But who is going to work on covering all these devices? :>
(01:08:50) naemo: it would be very nice if intel
(01:08:58) naemo: realize and make the same step
(01:09:06) naemo: as IBM did almost 30 years ago
(01:09:15) naemo: by creating open architecture PC’s
(01:09:29) naemo: Yes, I know, nobody except you, probably don’t do that.
(01:09:47) naemo: And it would be very nice if we have a lot of different generic cases and boards
(01:09:51) smoku: IA32 and IA64 is open and standardized very well
(01:10:04) naemo: exactly
(01:10:13) naemo: Give me please this case, and this board, and this screen
(01:10:25) naemo: I don’t know whether it is possible to change CPU’s on embedded boards
(01:10:39) naemo: or memory
(01:10:49) naemo: Like, OK, I need more powerful CPU
(01:11:02) smoku: I don’t think it’s needed anymore.
(01:11:20) naemo: explain please
(01:11:27) smoku: the technology is moving so fast, that people don’t need modular design anymore
(01:11:40) naemo: interesting
(01:11:41) Venemo: smoku, if you don’t develop for nokia devices, you could still test on your archos 5 it
(01:12:16) smoku: by the point you reach the treshold of your CPU, the new CPU you want requires a new board, you also wand a faster HDD with new connector bus, etc. etc.
(01:12:49) smoku: so even in case of desktop PCs, when you reach the point of “i want to upgrade something” you need to upgrade the whole PC
(01:13:31) naemo: I see
(01:14:04) smoku: i given away my desktop PC few years ago and started swapping laptop since
(01:14:11) smoku: same for the pocketable device
(01:14:31) smoku: if the current one is not enough anymore – you just replace it with nexgen hardware
(01:14:56) Venemo: smoku, I tend to understand
(01:15:08) naemo: As far as I understand intel will produce a MeeGo port only if it is requested by the phone manufacturer.
(01:15:37) smoku: Venemo, yes. I have archos for this very reason. but I don’t have much time to test on i586, not talking about stoneage ARM
(01:16:20) smoku: archos 2.6.29 frankenkernel is very meego incompatible and causes problems
(01:16:21) naemo: On the contrary, it would be nice to have possibility to buy a bare mobile hardware and install your own OS there. Or even mobile with an existing OS, and install your own to have freedom, like we do with GNU/Linux distributions.
(01:17:01) naemo: Actually I like ARM instruction set, it’s a pity for me, that we won’t have MeeGo ARM devices probably.
(01:17:24) naemo: Intel contains so many compatibility layers, which means it has more gates
(01:17:37) Venemo: smoku, I understand
(01:17:50) naemo: which means also that it will require more power
(01:18:01) Venemo: smoku: soo, Atom is i586, not i686?
(01:18:11) smoku: naemo, I’m sure we will see Atom powered mobiles in near future
(01:18:18) naemo: and intel has special papers for compiler developers.
(01:18:33) naemo: smoku: nice
(01:19:05) Venemo: naemo: some guy from Intel said that they want a medfield-based mobile to arrive this year
(01:19:26) smoku: the fragmentation of ARM market may give IA a big comeback
(01:19:44) smoku: which is a pity
(01:20:18) naemo: Venemo: nice
(01:20:48) naemo: in that papers they explain, that, for example, it is better to use test instruction on P4 cpu rather than bt (bit test)
(01:21:07) naemo: because bt is emulated now, and test is a cpu core instruction
(01:21:12) smoku: I was hoping we will finally drop this CISC hog
(01:21:25) naemo: we cannot because world don’t use free software
(01:21:40) naemo: they need to be able to run compiled programs from 9386 era 🙂
(01:21:45) smoku: microsoft has windows for ARM ready
(01:21:46) naemo: i386
(01:22:02) naemo: they had CE and mobile for ARM
(01:22:12) smoku: but without standardized platform it will still be manufacturer-software only hardware
(01:23:12) You are now known as norayr
(01:23:53) norayr: They had an alpha port
(01:24:08) norayr: I don’t know whether it was used at all or not 🙂
(01:24:14) smoku: the NT is very portable
(01:24:29) smoku: and ARM will not matter in near future
(01:24:55) norayr: Yes, the problem is in the proprietary software, which is not possible to recompile by maintainers, and patch if necessary.
(01:25:03) smoku: ARM and GLES is nice… but with IA and real OpenGL in your pocket just around the corner…
(01:25:26) norayr: 🙂
(01:26:20) norayr: Like let’s take “Maelstrom”, or even “xv” image viewer. Last one is written in 1994. But people added 64bit patches, gcc 4 patches, and vuala
(01:26:27) norayr: we have it in modern distributions
(01:26:44) norayr: Which is not possible with proprietary software.
(01:27:13) norayr: It may be possible if Microsoft force developers to build via it’s service like autobuild, or OBS.
(01:27:33) norayr: and distribute software only through legal markets
(01:28:06) smoku: emulation is the answer 🙂
(01:29:10) norayr: remember they wanted to have x86 hardware emulation in itaniums
(01:29:15) norayr: but dropped that idea
(01:29:27) norayr: probably it was too hard
(01:36:09) smoku: i mean software emulation
(01:37:12) norayr: aha, apple successfully did it couple of times.
(01:39:35) norayr: just in that case they was producing hardware, and software was following the hardware needs. here, MS wouldn’t care to add emulation layer in the operating system unless people start to use other architectures, and people won’t use them unless ms prepare an emulation
(01:39:37) norayr: 🙂
(01:43:16) smoku: unless the hardware manufacturer funds it
(01:44:23) norayr: and there are no sofware independent hardware manufacturer like apple. ibm produces it’s own operating systems, but not for desktop users
(01:45:17) norayr: hmm, so ibm can start producing like, cell or ppc hardware and have an agreement with ms to port windows.
(01:45:29) norayr: i see.
(01:49:03) wmarone_ [~wmarone@c-67-174-148-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] entered the room.
(01:54:16) wmarone__ left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
(02:03:55) smoku: well… THAT will not happen
(02:04:07) smoku: MS already screwed IBM once 😉
(02:04:48) norayr: 🙂
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